Land dispute - Ransom Strip

[Brian]

The house we have owned for 4 years is the end house in a road of 30 odd
houses, the road terminates in a cul-de-sac outside our property. Adjacent
to our house is a field which has planning passed for residential
development. The only access to this field is via the road we live on.

During a routine enquiry as part of placing an objection to the planning
application we realised the we owned the access to the field, well half of
it at least. When our property title deeds were drawn up the boundary line
extended to the centreline of the road, then when the road was adopted the
land passed onto the highways agency. By a fault of the builder (who built
our houses 20 years ago) the pavement at the terminating end of the
cul-de-sac wasn't completed in compliance with the highways agency policy so
wasn't adopted as a pavement or road. This means that we own a strip of
land 0.5m wide to the centreline of the road, which is also the only access
to the field. The other half was never part of my opposing neighbours
title, therefore remained with the original builder, who is no longer
trading so I believe this reverts to the Crown.

The people who sold the field to the developer implied that access was
available, and the developer didn't check thoroughly enough. It took me
less than 1 hour and £36 to get copies of the title deeds from the LR.
Which proves the above para.

My question is what are my chances of getting the developer who has bought
the field to buy the strip of land from me. They also need the other half
of the land from the Crown to make it useful. I have consulted my solicitor
(whom I have confidence in) and he has written to the developer. What I
can't afford to do is take High Court action if the developer ignores me.
What else can be done to apply pressure to the developer outside of court
proceedings?

Once this is successfully done how much will I get? I've seen the term "1/3
of the capital gain on the site" used to value a ransom strip. How do I
know what this is, I know the purchase price of the land (£570K) and the
number of dwellings (11 semis) which I assume will have an advertised price.

Anyone with experience of these matters and able to pass on information
would be appreciated.

Regards
Brian

[steve robinson]

Post by Brian
The house we have owned for 4 years is the end house in a road of 30 odd
houses, the road terminates in a cul-de-sac outside our property.
Adjacent
to our house is a field which has planning passed for residential
development. The only access to this field is via the road we live on.
During a routine enquiry as part of placing an objection to the planning
application we realised the we owned the access to the field, well half of
it at least. When our property title deeds were drawn up the boundary line
extended to the centreline of the road, then when the road was adopted the
land passed onto the highways agency. By a fault of the builder (who built
our houses 20 years ago) the pavement at the terminating end of the
cul-de-sac wasn't completed in compliance with the highways agency policy so
wasn't adopted as a pavement or road. This means that we own a strip of
land 0.5m wide to the centreline of the road, which is also the only access
to the field. The other half was never part of my opposing neighbours
title, therefore remained with the original builder, who is no longer
trading so I believe this reverts to the Crown.
The people who sold the field to the developer implied that access was
available, and the developer didn't check thoroughly enough. It took me
less than 1 hour and £36 to get copies of the title deeds from the LR.
Which proves the above para.
My question is what are my chances of getting the developer who has bought
the field to buy the strip of land from me. They also need the other half
of the land from the Crown to make it useful. I have consulted my solicitor
(whom I have confidence in) and he has written to the developer. What I
can't afford to do is take High Court action if the developer ignores me.
What else can be done to apply pressure to the developer outside of court
proceedings?
Once this is successfully done how much will I get? I've seen the term "1/3
of the capital gain on the site" used to value a ransom strip. How do I
know what this is, I know the purchase price of the land (£570K) and the
number of dwellings (11 semis) which I assume will have an advertised price.
Anyone with experience of these matters and able to pass on information
would be appreciated.
Regards
Brian
you can fence the land off if you wish that's if you defiantly own it, what
you must remember though over the last twenty years others have had the use
of this land

and right of way over it so although you may own it you may not have the
right to prevent access across it, you will also be responsible for its
maintenance .
If you think a developer is going to cough up a third of his profit then
you are dreaming , they will sit on the land if necessary , they may even
make your neighbour an offer for the house ,

you should have waited until construction started and buildings were going
up then you would have had more leverage

[Brian]

Post by steve robinson

Post by Brian
The house we have owned for 4 years is the end house in a road of 30 odd
houses, the road terminates in a cul-de-sac outside our property.
Adjacent
to our house is a field which has planning passed for residential
development. The only access to this field is via the road we live on.
During a routine enquiry as part of placing an objection to the planning
application we realised the we owned the access to the field, well half of
it at least. When our property title deeds were drawn up the boundary line
extended to the centreline of the road, then when the road was adopted the
land passed onto the highways agency. By a fault of the builder (who built
our houses 20 years ago) the pavement at the terminating end of the
cul-de-sac wasn't completed in compliance with the highways agency

policy

Post by steve robinson

Post by Brian
so
wasn't adopted as a pavement or road. This means that we own a strip of
land 0.5m wide to the centreline of the road, which is also the only access
to the field. The other half was never part of my opposing neighbours
title, therefore remained with the original builder, who is no longer
trading so I believe this reverts to the Crown.
The people who sold the field to the developer implied that access was
available, and the developer didn't check thoroughly enough. It took me
less than 1 hour and £36 to get copies of the title deeds from the LR.
Which proves the above para.
My question is what are my chances of getting the developer who has bought
the field to buy the strip of land from me. They also need the other half
of the land from the Crown to make it useful. I have consulted my solicitor
(whom I have confidence in) and he has written to the developer. What I
can't afford to do is take High Court action if the developer ignores me.
What else can be done to apply pressure to the developer outside of court
proceedings?
Once this is successfully done how much will I get? I've seen the term "1/3
of the capital gain on the site" used to value a ransom strip. How do I
know what this is, I know the purchase price of the land (£570K) and the
number of dwellings (11 semis) which I assume will have an advertised price.
Anyone with experience of these matters and able to pass on information
would be appreciated.
Regards
Brian
you can fence the land off if you wish that's if you defiantly own it, what
you must remember though over the last twenty years others have had the use
of this land

and right of way over it so although you may own it you may not have the
right to prevent access across it, you will also be responsible for its
maintenance .
If you think a developer is going to cough up a third of his profit then
you are dreaming , they will sit on the land if necessary , they may even
make your neighbour an offer for the house ,
you should have waited until construction started and buildings were going
up then you would have had more leverage

As the land in question was next to a fence, it is fare to say that no one
has had use of the land for access for the last 20 years (we have
photographs to prove). As for maintenance we (myself and the previous
owner) have maintained the fence, the ground was concrete so required little
maintenance. As you say the developer could sit on the land, but this is a
smaller local developer not a national one. I would imagine that owning 1/2
million quid's worth of land is a sizeable amount of cash flow to them. As
for the work starting, ground work has commenced. Roads and sewerage has
been installed, but since my solicitors letter work has been halted.
You don't think that the developer will cough up 1/3 or his profit, but
isn't this what happens with other ransom strips? I saw this as common
practice, and it's the developers fault for not investigating his access
rights prior to paying so much for the land. If he was deceived by the
vendors then he should have a claim against them for the additional costs.

[SimonJ]

Post by Brian
As the land in question was next to a fence, it is fare to say that no one
has had use of the land for access for the last 20 years (we have
photographs to prove). As for maintenance we (myself and the previous
owner) have maintained the fence, the ground was concrete so required little
maintenance. As you say the developer could sit on the land, but this is a
smaller local developer not a national one. I would imagine that owning 1/2
million quid's worth of land is a sizeable amount of cash flow to them.

As

Post by Brian
for the work starting, ground work has commenced. Roads and sewerage has
been installed, but since my solicitors letter work has been halted.
You don't think that the developer will cough up 1/3 or his profit, but
isn't this what happens with other ransom strips? I saw this as common
practice, and it's the developers fault for not investigating his access
rights prior to paying so much for the land. If he was deceived by the
vendors then he should have a claim against them for the additional costs.

I think 'blackmail' is the usual term for it, what a nice chap you are.
Hope you've got plenty of Horlicks in the cupboard.

[Brian]

Post by Brian

Post by Brian
As the land in question was next to a fence, it is fare to say that no one
has had use of the land for access for the last 20 years (we have
photographs to prove). As for maintenance we (myself and the previous
owner) have maintained the fence, the ground was concrete so required

little

Post by Brian
maintenance. As you say the developer could sit on the land, but this

is

Post by Brian
a

Post by Brian
smaller local developer not a national one. I would imagine that owning

1/2

Post by Brian
million quid's worth of land is a sizeable amount of cash flow to them.

As

Post by Brian
for the work starting, ground work has commenced. Roads and sewerage has
been installed, but since my solicitors letter work has been halted.
You don't think that the developer will cough up 1/3 or his profit, but
isn't this what happens with other ransom strips? I saw this as common
practice, and it's the developers fault for not investigating his access
rights prior to paying so much for the land. If he was deceived by the
vendors then he should have a claim against them for the additional costs.

I think 'blackmail' is the usual term for it, what a nice chap you are.
Hope you've got plenty of Horlicks in the cupboard.

Simon,
I suppose you would do something different. If you owned an asset that
had a value of say £50K you'd sell it for £1, when you knew that the person
buying it would stand to make £500K!
I think not Simon! I also think that you shouldn't answer legal new
groups when you obviously know nothing about the subject that's being
discussed. Bye!

[Alan]

Post by Brian

Post by SimonJ

Post by Brian
As the land in question was next to a fence, it is fare to say that
no one has had use of the land for access for the last 20 years (we
have photographs to prove). As for maintenance we (myself and the
previous owner) have maintained the fence, the ground was concrete
so required little maintenance. As you say the developer could sit
on the land, but this is a smaller local developer not a national
one. I would imagine that owning 1/2 million quid's worth of land
is a sizeable amount of cash flow to them. As for the work
starting, ground work has commenced. Roads and sewerage has been
installed, but since my solicitors letter work has been halted. You
don't think that the developer will cough up 1/3 or his profit, but
isn't this what happens with other ransom strips? I saw this as
common practice, and it's the developers fault for not
investigating his access rights prior to paying so much for the
land. If he was deceived by the vendors then he should have a
claim against them for the additional costs.

I think 'blackmail' is the usual term for it, what a nice chap you
are. Hope you've got plenty of Horlicks in the cupboard.

Simon,
I suppose you would do something different. If you owned an asset
that had a value of say £50K you'd sell it for £1, when you knew that
the person buying it would stand to make £500K!
I think not Simon! I also think that you shouldn't answer legal
new groups when you obviously know nothing about the subject that's
being discussed. Bye!

I might have some sympathy if he was suddenly blocking his elderly
neighbours drive but developers deserve to be squeezed for whatever you can
get, that's what they're doing to the land they buy.

[SimonJ]

Post by Brian

Post by SimonJ
I think 'blackmail' is the usual term for it, what a nice chap you are.
Hope you've got plenty of Horlicks in the cupboard.

Simon,
I suppose you would do something different. If you owned an asset that
had a value of say £50K you'd sell it for £1, when you knew that the person
buying it would stand to make £500K!

Who asked you to sell it for £1??
If its worth £50K, then sell it for £50K
The developer might stand to make £500k, but he has put up a large sum of
money to do this, he is entitled to a decent return.
You said yourself that it is probably a large chunk of his cashflow tied up
in the land, your actions could bankrupt him. I hope you sleep soundly
knowing this.

Post by Brian
I also think that you shouldn't answer legal new
groups when you obviously know nothing about the subject that's being
discussed.

You shouldn't post on public forums if you don't want to hear peoples
opinions.

[steve robinson]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[R. Mark Clayton]

"steve robinson" <***@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8KB6e.9946

Post by steve robinson
in this situation your stuffed
as I said earlier you have no chance of getting a third of the profits
from the developer , you could end up with a load of pikeys living on the
field if the developer goes bust with out a chance of getting them moved
(private land receiver wouldn't give a fuck)
you really do need to show some common sense in all this , if its shown
that your claims are invalid they may chas you for the loses

The developers wouldn't tip off any travellers anywhere they might find
conducive to pitch camp - would they???

Still they would have 99 days to get them off.... or at least be seen to
try.

[steve robinson]

Post by R. Mark Clayton
news:8KB6e.9946

Post by steve robinson
in this situation your stuffed
as I said earlier you have no chance of getting a third of the profits
from the developer , you could end up with a load of pikeys living on
the field if the developer goes bust with out a chance of getting them
moved (private land receiver wouldn't give a fuck)
you really do need to show some common sense in all this , if its shown
that your claims are invalid they may chas you for the loses

The developers wouldn't tip off any travellers anywhere they might find
conducive to pitch camp - would they???
Still they would have 99 days to get them off.... or at least be seen to
try.

exactly seem to try and with current human rights law the developer could do
nothing until clarification is received sometime never

[Brian]

Post by R. Mark Clayton
news:8KB6e.9946

Post by steve robinson
in this situation your stuffed
as I said earlier you have no chance of getting a third of the profits
from the developer , you could end up with a load of pikeys living on the
field if the developer goes bust with out a chance of getting them moved
(private land receiver wouldn't give a fuck)
you really do need to show some common sense in all this , if its shown
that your claims are invalid they may chas you for the loses

The developers wouldn't tip off any travellers anywhere they might find
conducive to pitch camp - would they???
Still they would have 99 days to get them off.... or at least be seen to
try.

Why does everyone think that I'm the bad guy in all this? So far all I've
done is looked up the deeds and land registry titles for all the land
surrounding my own, found that I own a strip of land which someone else
needs to cross that they have no current rights to (of this I'm certain and
have taken legal advice to support).
Then I have written (or my solicitor has) to the developer asking what he
proposes to do about this problem of access. I never had a figure in mind
regarding value, only this formula of 1/3 of gain that I was told was a
standard calculation method. If the developer wants to talk to me and
propose an amicable solution then I'm open to suggestions. So far the
developer hasn't replied, but work on the site has stopped. If the
developer wants to halt the site and pack up and go home that's fine by me,
but it makes sense to discuss the matter first doesn't it?
As for travellers, the land has been a paddock for the last 100 years and
they haven't bothered with it in that time, now it's a muddy hole it looks
less like a place where you'd park £30K worth of caravan.

[steve robinson]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[R. Mark Clayton]

Post by Brian
Why does everyone think that I'm the bad guy in all this? So far all I've
done is looked up the deeds and land registry titles for all the land
surrounding my own, found that I own a strip of land which someone else
needs to cross that they have no current rights to (of this I'm certain and
have taken legal advice to support).

Well mainly because there is no way that your bit of land contributes one
third of the value of the site and you have not made any use of it since you
bought it.

Post by Brian
Then I have written (or my solicitor has) to the developer asking what he
proposes to do about this problem of access. I never had a figure in mind
regarding value, only this formula of 1/3 of gain that I was told was a
standard calculation method. If the developer wants to talk to me and
propose an amicable solution then I'm open to suggestions. So far the
developer hasn't replied, but work on the site has stopped. If the
developer wants to halt the site and pack up and go home that's fine by me,
but it makes sense to discuss the matter first doesn't it?
As for travellers, the land has been a paddock for the last 100 years and
they haven't bothered with it in that time, now it's a muddy hole it looks
less like a place where you'd park £30K worth of caravan.

Have they been already? I should visit a traveller site near you...
As discussed elsewhere be prepared for a legal wrangle over whether you do
own this land or it is a mistaken entry in the register - if I had someone
trying to screw me for ££££££ for a few square metres of land that obviously
were not part of his garden I would certainly be prepared to pay ££££ on
lawyers seeing if there was some way of outflanking the b******d.

It would be a rather different story if they wanted access down the side of
your house where the drive to your garage currently is.

[SimonJ]

Post by Brian
Why does everyone think that I'm the bad guy in all this?

Do good guys hold people to ransom?

[Peter Parry]

Post by Brian
As for travellers, the land has been a paddock for the last 100 years and
they haven't bothered with it in that time, now it's a muddy hole it looks
less like a place where you'd park £30K worth of caravan.

You forget it now has drains and a road.

[M. L. Brooke-joyce]

Post by Peter Parry

Post by Brian
As for travellers, the land has been a paddock for the last 100 years and
they haven't bothered with it in that time, now it's a muddy hole it looks
less like a place where you'd park £30K worth of caravan.

You forget it now has drains and a road.

Have a JCB with a big bucket and dont take any nonsense from
do-as-you-likeys or suits called developers. Possession is 9/10ths et
al, no one is going to help you until you make a major issue of it
yourself, (applies to lots of these questions out here) so stand up for
yourself, forget the so called 'law', and every decent person in the
land will be behind you. Re-claim England!!!

[R. Mark Clayton]

Post by Brian
The house we have owned for 4 years is the end house in a road of 30 odd
houses, the road terminates in a cul-de-sac outside our property.
Adjacent
to our house is a field which has planning passed for residential
development. The only access to this field is via the road we live on.
During a routine enquiry as part of placing an objection to the planning
application we realised the we owned the access to the field, well half of
it at least. When our property title deeds were drawn up the boundary line
extended to the centreline of the road, then when the road was adopted the
land passed onto the highways agency. By a fault of the builder (who built
our houses 20 years ago) the pavement at the terminating end of the
cul-de-sac wasn't completed in compliance with the highways agency policy so
wasn't adopted as a pavement or road. This means that we own a strip of
land 0.5m wide to the centreline of the road, which is also the only access
to the field. The other half was never part of my opposing neighbours
title, therefore remained with the original builder, who is no longer
trading so I believe this reverts to the Crown.
The people who sold the field to the developer implied that access was
available, and the developer didn't check thoroughly enough. It took me
less than 1 hour and £36 to get copies of the title deeds from the LR.
Which proves the above para.
My question is what are my chances of getting the developer who has bought
the field to buy the strip of land from me. They also need the other half
of the land from the Crown to make it useful. I have consulted my solicitor
(whom I have confidence in) and he has written to the developer. What I
can't afford to do is take High Court action if the developer ignores me.
What else can be done to apply pressure to the developer outside of court
proceedings?
Once this is successfully done how much will I get? I've seen the term "1/3
of the capital gain on the site" used to value a ransom strip. How do I
know what this is, I know the purchase price of the land (£570K) and the
number of dwellings (11 semis) which I assume will have an advertised price.
Anyone with experience of these matters and able to pass on information
would be appreciated.
Regards
Brian

The problem is that own it or not right of [high]way has long been
established over it, and so you probably can't prevent the developer using
it for access.

You should look at your own deeds carefully too. It may well be (as in the
case of the private road outside my place) that there is a covenant to allow
neighbours etc. the right to pass and repass over the road you own. In my
case this meant we got houses at the end of the road.

[Brian]

Post by R. Mark Clayton

Post by Brian
The house we have owned for 4 years is the end house in a road of 30 odd
houses, the road terminates in a cul-de-sac outside our property.
Adjacent
to our house is a field which has planning passed for residential
development. The only access to this field is via the road we live on.
During a routine enquiry as part of placing an objection to the planning
application we realised the we owned the access to the field, well half of
it at least. When our property title deeds were drawn up the boundary line
extended to the centreline of the road, then when the road was adopted the
land passed onto the highways agency. By a fault of the builder (who built
our houses 20 years ago) the pavement at the terminating end of the
cul-de-sac wasn't completed in compliance with the highways agency

policy

Post by R. Mark Clayton

Post by Brian
so
wasn't adopted as a pavement or road. This means that we own a strip of
land 0.5m wide to the centreline of the road, which is also the only access
to the field. The other half was never part of my opposing neighbours
title, therefore remained with the original builder, who is no longer
trading so I believe this reverts to the Crown.
The people who sold the field to the developer implied that access was
available, and the developer didn't check thoroughly enough. It took me
less than 1 hour and £36 to get copies of the title deeds from the LR.
Which proves the above para.
My question is what are my chances of getting the developer who has bought
the field to buy the strip of land from me. They also need the other half
of the land from the Crown to make it useful. I have consulted my solicitor
(whom I have confidence in) and he has written to the developer. What I
can't afford to do is take High Court action if the developer ignores me.
What else can be done to apply pressure to the developer outside of court
proceedings?
Once this is successfully done how much will I get? I've seen the term "1/3
of the capital gain on the site" used to value a ransom strip. How do I
know what this is, I know the purchase price of the land (£570K) and the
number of dwellings (11 semis) which I assume will have an advertised price.
Anyone with experience of these matters and able to pass on information
would be appreciated.
Regards
Brian

The problem is that own it or not right of [high]way has long been
established over it, and so you probably can't prevent the developer using
it for access.
You should look at your own deeds carefully too. It may well be (as in the
case of the private road outside my place) that there is a covenant to allow
neighbours etc. the right to pass and repass over the road you own. In my
case this meant we got houses at the end of the road.

I have read the deeds. There is a clause that allowed for access and to
extend the existing highway, but this clause expired two years ago.

[Socrates]

"Brian" <***@cheerful.com> wrote in message news:LJudnaVubJ1EEcTfRVn-***@is.co.za...

By a fault of the builder (who built our houses 20 years ago) the pavement at the terminating end of the
cul-de-sac wasn't completed in compliance with the highways agency
policy so wasn't adopted as a pavement or road. This means that we own a strip of
land 0.5m wide to the centreline of the road, which is also the only
access to the field. The other half was never part of my opposing neighbours
title, therefore remained with the original builder, who is no longer
trading so I believe this reverts to the Crown.

Both these assumptions could be wrong so you would need to "tread carefully" before exercising any percieved rights.

Under the provisions of Sections 205 to 218 of the Highways Act 1980, the highway authority, that is the Council, may resolve to raise the standard of a private street by providing any or all of the missing features or by improving the standard of any existing features. This procedure enables the Council on completion of necessary remedial works to adopt the street as a highway maintainable at public expense.

The remaining land may already have been assigned to the Council but the fact that they haven't bothered to adopt it as a carriageway under section 38 does not mean that they can't do so now - particularly as there will be a need to do so in view of the new development.

The ransom strip could be as valuable as you can make it provided no one else can lay claim to it.


http://www.homepage-link.to/Justice/judgements/Stone/daley-testimony.html